The Governor

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Posts by The Governor

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  14

  How Much Does It Cost To Produce One Watchtower Magazine?

  by The Governor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello everyone i had a quick question to ask.

  does anyone know how much it cost to produce a watchtower magazine?

  also does anyone know how much each watchtower magazine is worth?

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  The Governor

  Hello everyone I had a quick question to ask. Does anyone know how much it cost to produce a Watchtower magazine?

  Also does anyone know how much each Watchtower magazine is worth?
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  27

  Jehovah's Witnesses #10 in Yahoo trending

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sitting here drinking my morning coffee and opened up the yahoo page to see jw's trending at #10. clicked on it and the first article is about the child abuse.. did something happen lately that would get so many people doing a massive search?.

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  The Governor

  On Google it came up as the 5th post. This was the post:

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181187/Jehovah-s-Witnesses-procedures-dealing-sex-abuse-deficient-traumatise-victims-church-expert-admits-child-abuse-commission-hearing.html
  
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  3

  "Knock, Knock" --- My Poem

  by The Governor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is saturday morning and you hear a ring at the door bell, two men greet you looking quite swell.

  they say good morning and open up their publications and start reading without any hesitation.

  they tell you the world is getting worse, with death and human suffering you think the world must be cursed!

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  The Governor

  
  

  It is Saturday morning and you hear a ring at the door bell, two men greet you looking quite swell.

  
  

  They say good morning and open up their publications and start reading without any hesitation.

  
  

  They tell you the world is getting worse, with death and human suffering you think the world must be cursed! They give you a solution after stating this sentence, it's to gain access to the paradise Earth entrance.

  
  

  "What must I do?" You ask them. They tell you that you must learn about Jehovah and all his ways, but they will fail to tell you that you must also serve men for the rest of your days.
  
  You must give yourself over to their organization, as not questioning the Governing Body leaders will be the key to your salvation.

  
  

  They won't tell you about the separation of family and friends due to their policy on shunning, as hearing about the suicides and depression resulting in this will likely have you running.

  
  

  They keep you interested by asking you questions with beautiful pictures and illustrations hoping that after their discussion that you may visit one of their many congregations.

  
  

  They won't tell you much about their history or past, and will even tell you their group does not consist of a hierarchy cast.

  
  

  Governing body, Elder, Pioneer, Publisher and those who participate unbaptized, is what their cast consist of who fail to see most of their lies.
  
  Lies consisting of 1914 and an overlapping generation, they will defend these lies to be free from the world's destructive damnation.

  
  

  "Why do they not tell me these things?" The man at the door is asking me, the writer of this poem, as all these horrible practices will give their religion a bad omen.

  
  

  The man at the door ask's himself "What do I tell these folks who seem quite religious?" To him I say "Discuss with them nicely that you do not want to be a Jehovah's Witness."
  
  These kind men in suits respect your decision and tell you that if you decide to take up a bible study with them, from Jehovah it is a loving provision.
  
  As they leave your door and continue to go house to house to preach about the good news of a restoration, you head back into your house being thankful you did not give them your dedication.
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  1

  June JW.org Broadcasting: What You Can Receive From The Preaching Work!

  by The Governor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just finished watching john cedars rebuttal of the june jw.org broadcasting.

  there was an interesting part that i found personally that wasn't discussed by cedars.

  it starts at about 50 minutes in where this brother starts discussing what prisoners need or what they can get from the preaching work.

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  The Governor

  I just finished watching John Cedars rebuttal of the June JW.org broadcasting. There was an interesting part that I found personally that wasn't discussed by Cedars. It starts at about 50 minutes in where this brother starts discussing what prisoners need or what they can get from the preaching work. He goes into this list and pay attention to what this list DOES NOT include. Let's see if you can figure it out. This brothers list of what prisoners (or any outsider) can receive from the preaching work is as follows:

  • Relief
    
  • Understanding
  • Spiritual Strength and Education
  • Meaning to their lives

  
  

  At the end this man struggles to add to the list but what he does not include in the list of what outsiders get from the preaching work is TRUTH! Truth did not make it on to that list and I find it very interesting that if you were to list off what you would receive from the preaching work I would think truth would be at the top of the list since they refer to their belief structure or system as "The Truth."
  
  Now according to the meaning of "truth" you have a few different requirements that make up something to be true. According to the dictionary truth is described as:
  
  -The true or actual state of a matter

  -Conformity with fact of reality; verity

  -A verified or indisputable fact, proposition or principle

  -The state of a character being true

  -Actuality or actual existence

  -An obvious or excepted fact; truism; platitude

  -Honesty; integrity; truthfulness

  
  

  Is it for the reason that this brother did not include truth on his list of what people are expected to gain from the preaching work because what the Jehovah's Witnesses are spreading is actually not true? The Jehovah's Witnesses do not base what they preach on any sort of verified or indisputable facts or principles. They don't bring honesty or integrity to your door and don't confirm any truths they bring of the state of the world and it's people with facts, sources or research.
  
  That's what really popped out at me during this rebuttal of the June broadcast because as an outsider entering into Kingdom Halls for the first time or entering into a Jehovah's Witness Bible study, the first thing you are likely to hear is that you will know THE TRUTH about what the Bible really teaches and the prophesies and messages Jehovah has for us. This brother in this video totally negates and neglects mentioning any sort of truth being received by outsiders from the preaching work but instead focuses on giving meaning to people's lives and relief?

  If anyone hasn't watched John Cedars rebuttal on youtube yet I suggest you do so by typing in "John Cedars" in the youtube search bar. Did anything from the June broadcast stick out to you as odd or out of place in this months broadcast?
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  46

  Well another one leaves the Borg.

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i took a quick trip to the store and i happened to see a young man (about 26-28 years old) who got baptized about the same time i was leaving- about 2 years ago.

  a couple of pioneer sisters found him in the door to door work.

  one of them, a very attractive girl.

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  The Governor

  His story could also be a reason why the Watchtower is so against education. For myself I am looking into sociology, psychology, anthropology or philosophy for my schooling right now. Courses like these show you how to think, analyze, rationalize and observe specific teachings and arguments and recognize when arguments are weak or are not being supported. If the Watchtower had many individuals just like the one written here the Watchtower would be in big trouble! The thing is, if Witnesses all went to go get educated they would be advancing their education level beyond that of the average governing body member.

  People who are educated will not spend their hours weekly doing studies at a grade 2 level. People who are educated are not going to listen to Stephen Lett and take him seriously for anything. People who are educated are going to recognize the weak arguments to back up their religious views used in Watchtowers and talks. People who are educated are going to start understanding why the Watchtowers "logic" is actually not logic at all and most of the Watchtowers reasoning is based on the foundation of fallacy. People who are educated will sit in the hall listening to the Sunday discourse and actually feel their brain melting into goo as they are listening.
  
  Your friend is a great example of why Watchtower doesn't want success or education among the Witness. If you have these two things you will have no problem walking away from Watchtower. With your own success and education there is nothing you can't do! You don't need to be attached to the Watchtower as your only life line if you have education and success. This individual had a lot going for him. He was educated and used his brain to analyze what was going around him. This is taught in philosophy. He was able to critically form an opinion based on what he had seen and heard. He observed the actions of Witnesses in a none biased way. He formed his own reasoning's WITHOUT having to go to the Elders to help him "adjust his thinking" to an opinion or viewpoint he never possessed.
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  46

  Well another one leaves the Borg.

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i took a quick trip to the store and i happened to see a young man (about 26-28 years old) who got baptized about the same time i was leaving- about 2 years ago.

  a couple of pioneer sisters found him in the door to door work.

  one of them, a very attractive girl.

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  The Governor

  Not sure why anyone would want to be a Jehovah's Witness after researching everything that needed to be researched. When it comes to ONLY seeing the side of the Jehovah's Witnesses I can see why someone would want to join but if a thinking person analyzed the pro's AND the con's on the Jehovah's Witness I think most "wordly" people who were not born in like myself would leave before even joining. Hoping that "worldy" people research what they are really getting into they will come to realize a few things.
  
  1: You would have to defend outrageous doctrine that has no basis for support or evidence what so ever. I have been on the opposing side MORE then a few times with Witnesses trying to defend weak, unsupported doctrine and it looks very stressful and un-fulfilling. For example who is willingly going to defend that Jesus came invisibly in 1914 and chose the Watchtower in 1919 out of all religions to be a people for his name yet in the halls you learn that Jehovah has ALWAYS had a people for his name so these two teachings contradict each other. Now this "wordly" or unbaptized publisher is going to have to defend a doctrine that makes absolutely no sense.
  
  2: You would have to commit your mind, body and soul to this religious group. Most people not born in are attached to their friends and have very strong family ties. "Worldys" put their family first unlike those fully dedicated to the organization where the organizations needs come first before your family. Being an adult living in "the world" it's hard to actually lower your moral standards when it comes to family. The organization teaches that "wordly" family and friends are doomed for destruction and should only interact with family when important family matters arise. You are basically replacing your family that you love so much with strangers that don't give a rats ass about you and that will turn you in for any wrong doing they see. This new family will encourage you to pull the plug on your own life when it comes to certain medical decisions while the REAL "wordly" family will do everything to support and save you!
  
  3: Like the poster said, these people aren't that intelligent. I have heard a few talks where I am scratching my head because there were so many holes in that talk yet the Witnesses feel like they just heard a talk from Einstein. Right off the bat, I knew exactly what the poster meant about Elders horrible jokes. They are bad!!! You can easily tell that the jokes are placed in there, are heavily censored and probably needed heavy approval before placing it in the talk layout. A joke is funny when it comes from the heart but when these Witness would laugh at a stage "joke" I would just shake my head. After seeing a talk done at a Church by a pastor I was so surprised I didn't see the difference in talks by Elders and pastors before. This pastor could talk and he involved the crowd and engaged them. I laughed so hard at this pastors humor it was unbelievable. I actually asked him after his talk if he inserted those jokes (like the Elders do) and he said "no" and kinda looked at me like "why would someone do that?" All jokes came from the heart! It just went to show me how bland and boring these Elder talks were and how unintelligent they could be. There were many things said (that I wish I could remember) where I leaned over to my partner who was soaking all this stuff up like a sponge and said "that's not quite accurate."
  
  This religion has no appeal to the outside world. "Wordlys" are asked to give up so much for a CHANCE to get into paradise. Once you give over your full self you are STILL taught that it isn't for sure that you will be there. I am glad this individual got out before he caught himself in a deep spot years later.
  
  
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  7

  Question for non-jw spouses

  by FreeGirl2006 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a dub i know was recently reinstated.

  she was dfd for leaving her hubby for another man.

  she married the other man and then began the process of being reinstated.

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  The Governor

  I was that person for awhile. I was attending the hall with my disfellowshipped partner and as they were trying so hard to get reinstated. My partner was shunned and wasn't spoken too. It is safe to say when a "worldy" partner is put in a situation like that for the first or second time where a whole congregation is shunning this person is one of thee oddest things you will ever experience. The Witnesses said it was out of love and my ex disfellowshipped partner was agreeing that it was a loving act. For me...I couldn't see it. I think one of the reasons why I went was to maybe one day try and view things the way they did. If an effort was made to see the apparent love in shunning then maybe I could see what they saw. It never happened. My conclusion was there was no love in shunning and I tried to view it from all angles. There is no way this "arrangement" was a loving arrangement...for anyone.
  
  It was hard on the one being shunned and those doing the shunning. Trying to find the loving "aspect" in this practice I have come to realize, just because the Witnesses say it is loving, does not make it so. Being the non-witness mate it was an awkward social situation. One time I was sitting between my old bible study conductor and my partner. My partner kept telling me to ask "T" about this or that and my Bible conductor "T" would tell me to give my partner this answer and it was ANNOYING! As a "wordly" all I thought was "this is the most immature, childish bullshit that I have come across in a long time." Like seriously, people in grade 2 do this type of thing if their mad with their friend or family and talk to them through the use of others but two adults doing this?
  
  I eventually told my partner that if they want to ask my Bible conductor anything they can ask her themselves. Both their actions at the meeting were one of the most immature things I have seen coming from two adults in a long time. So why do people like me go with shunned partners to the hall? Love I think. It made my happy that my partner had someone to talk to at the meetings. Once I understood that no one could talk with him it made me want to go to the meetings more so I could be that social out lit for him. It's hard to see someone you love being treated this way. Most witness partners accept that treatment if they are trying to be reinstated but the non-witness partner doesn't. The non-witness partner really can't do anything about the treatment so they go to be that social and mental support because we love our Witness partners.
  
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  8

  Does The Watchtower Use Propaganda?

  by The Governor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " --- g00 6/22 pp.

  " --- g00 6/22 pp.

  " --- g00 6/22 pp.

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  The Governor

  Does the Watchtower use Propaganda in its literature? The Watchtower describes Propaganda as the art of using lies, making generalizations of people, name calling, using loaded language, playing on the emotions and using slogans and symbols in a way to distort rational thinking, criticisms and basic reasoning to persuade one into dedicating ones self to a particular belief system or ideology. The Watchtower also encourages ones to be selective, use discernment, put information to the test, not following a crowd blindly and to keep asking questions. Does the Watchtower use the very propaganda techniques that it warns people into avoiding in it's own literature? Does the Watchtower also encourage the avoidance of asking questions or putting information to the test and other such protections when it comes to their literature? If not, you will have no reason not to keep reading!

  
  

  Dictionary Description of Propaganda

  Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
  

  
  

  “A fool will believe anything.”—PROVERBS 14:15

  “By clever and persevering use of propaganda even heaven can be represented as hell to the people, and conversely the most wretched life as paradise.”—ADOLF HITLER, MEIN KAMPF." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  
  

  
  

  "The cunning propagandist loves such shortcuts—especially those that short-circuit rational thought." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "However, we cannot hope to acquire a good relationship with Jehovah if we ignore those whom Jesus has appointed to care for his belongings. Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it." Examining the Scriptures Daily 2012 Mar 4
  

  
  
  

  "Certainly, the handiest trick of the propagandist is the use of outright lies." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things." Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15

  
  
  

  "Another very successful tactic of propaganda is generalization. Generalizations tend to obscure important facts about the real issues in question, and they are frequently used to demean entire groups of people." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8
  

  "We must also be on guard against extended association with worldly people. Perhaps it is a neighbor, a school friend, a workmate, or a business associate. We may reason, 'He respects the Witnesses, he leads a clean life, and we do talk about the truth occasionally.' Yet, the experience of others proves that in time we may even find ourselves preferring such worldly company to that of a spiritual brother or sister. What are some of the dangers of such a friendship?" Watchtower 1994 Feb 15 p.24

  
  

  
  

  "Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. ... The Bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them. Jehovah is like that good doctor. He clearly tells us to stay away from false teachers. We must always be determined to follow his warning. ... We do not speak to them or invite them into our houses. We also do not read their books, watch them on television, read what they write on the Internet, or add our own comments about what they write on the Internet."Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11

  
  

  
  
  

  "Even though feelings might be irrelevant when it comes to factual claims or the logic of an argument, they play a crucial role in persuasion."--- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "Satan then puts disloyalty and treason into their hearts. Soon they are victims of apostasy, and Satan rejoices." Watchtower 1988 Sep 1 p.16

  
  

  "Naturally, people would be fearful of a fanatic religious organization that supposedly drives young people to suicide." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "Sin still has an aftermath. For example, a disfellowshipped wrongdoer may repent and be reinstated in the congregation, but it may take years to overcome the tarnished reputation and emotional trauma resulting from sin. Meanwhile, how comforting it is to have Jehovah’s forgiveness and the support of his everlasting arms!" Watchtower 1991 Oct 1 p.18

  
  
  

  "Hatred is a strong emotion exploited by propagandists. Loaded language is particularly effective in triggering it. There seems to be a nearly endless supply of nasty words that promote and exploit hatred toward particular racial, ethnic, or religious groups." ---g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene." Watchtower 2004 Feb 15 p.28

  
  
  

  "Love of parents can also be exploited."(by propaganda) --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact." Kingdom Ministry Aug 2002 p.3

  
  
  

  "The sly art of propaganda can paralyze thought and prevent clear thinking..." --- g00 6/22 pp. 4-8

  "God's faithful modern-day Witnesses would never dare to question Jehovah" Watchtower 1995 Oct 1 p.27

  
  
  

  "THERE is a difference—a big difference—between education and propaganda. Education shows you how to think. Propaganda tells you what to think. Good educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists relentlessly force you to hear their view and discourage discussion." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "What though of higher education received in a college or university? This is widely viewed as vital to success, yet, many who pursue such education end up with their minds filled with harmful propaganda. Such education wastes valuable youthful years that could best be used in Jehovah's service. Perhaps it is not surprising that in lands where many have received such an education, belief in god is at an all time low. Rather than looking to the advanced educational systems of this world for security, a Christian trusts in Jehovah."Watchtower 2008 Apr 15 p.4

  
  
  

  "They (propagandist) also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "Their worship is not distributed to three gods in one, the so-called godhead of some mysterious Trinity, but they (Jehovah's Witnesses) are united as the one people who worship the one God, Jehovah." Watchtower 1984 Mar 1 p.23
  

  
  

  
  

  The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say. --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "‘What religious group bases all its teachings on the Bible and makes known Jehovah’s name? What group practices godly love, exercises faith in Jesus, is no part of the world, and proclaims that God’s Kingdom is the only real hope for mankind? Of all the religious groups on earth, which one meets all these requirements?’ The facts clearly show that it is Jehovah’s Witnesses" What Does the Bible Really Teach (2005) p.151

  
  

  
  

  "We need to scrutinize whatever is presented to us, deciding what to accept and what to reject." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions."Watchtower 1986 Mar 15 p.17

  
  
  

  "Here a Christian has a source of great wisdom. He has the Bible as a sure guide for his thinking. On the one hand, his mind is open, that is, receptive to new information. He properly weighs such new information against the Bible standard and fits what is true into his pattern of thinking. On the other hand, his mind sees the danger of information that is entirely inconsistent with his Bible-based values." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching ..." Watchtower 1981 Aug 15 p.29

  
  
  

  "Some people today are like sponges; they soak up whatever they come across. It is all too easy to absorb whatever is around us." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11
  

  'Believe all things,' all the things that the Watchtower brings out" Qualified to be Ministers (1955) p.156

  
  
  

  "But it is far better for each individual personally to choose what he will feed his mind. It is said that we are what we eat, and this can apply to food for both the body and the mind. No matter what you are reading or watching or listening to, test to see whether it has propagandistic overtones or is truthful." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "Jehovah uses his organization to teach and feed his people. Hence believe without suspicion the truth set forth by the “faithful and discreet slave.”" Watchtower 1962 Sep 1 p.524

  
  
  

  "First, examine whether there is bias. What is the motive for the message? If the message is rife with name-calling and loaded words, why is that? Loaded language aside, what are the merits of the message itself? Also, if possible, try to check the track record of those speaking. Are they known to speak the truth? If “authorities” are used, who or what are they? Why should you regard this person—or organization or publication—as having expert knowledge or trustworthy information on the subject in question? If you sense some appeal to emotions, ask yourself, ‘When viewed dispassionately, what are the merits of the message?" --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

  
  

  "Do not just follow the crowd: If you realize that what everybody thinks is not necessarily correct, you can find the strength to think differently. While it may seem that all others think the same way, does this mean that you should? Popular opinion is not a reliable barometer of truth. Over the centuries all kinds of ideas have been popularly accepted, only to be proved wrong later." --- g00 6/22 pp. 9-11

  "First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding." Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14

  
  

  "A religion that teaches a lie, cannot be true." Watchtower 1991 Dec.1 p.7

  
  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
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  27

  One month researching my doubts: my crucial issues with WTBTS - what are yours?

  by Tornintwo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so after 20 years a convert, about a month ago i decided to start listening to my doubts and to do independent research about the wtbts teachings (naughty me).

  as a result i have consolidated my position on various points and these are my major issues with the wtbts teachings, i am posting these to help myself figure things out (with your assistance) and hopefully to hear from others at their stage of drawing away from the gb - newbies' especially.

  in the form of notes so hope you dont mind...child abuse.

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  The Governor

  Not ever being a Witness but a Bible study I developed a lot of issues with how things were practiced and ran. I could probably make a list to the moon and back but I will mention a few specific things that are currently bugging me. A lot of the things did upset me when I was studying. I will try and list them in order; so here I go!
  
  1: The Governing Body speak for Jehovah. What ever the Governing Body displays in their literature or what ever you here from the platform, do not think of it as coming from men, but coming from Jehovah: This was a big issue for me. At the time not one individual could name all 7 Governing Body members. Not one.I couldn't understand how a huge group of individuals could trust their lives with 7 men and not even know their names. Once I started learning their names I soon learned to look at them as individuals and not as a "group" making up the Governing Body. I also couldn't understand why it was required to give my strict devotion and obedience to these men. In the publications it seemed like it was mentioned twice as much to be obedient to the Governing Body rather then being obedient to Christ. Many Witness claimed to agree with every word and statement the Governing Body made. It seemed like they didn't have one opposing thought in their mind. To me, this screamed of blind obedience. The Governing Body says and the Witnesses do! I did not like this system at all and complained a lot about it. I failed to see how these 7 men were some how had more spiritual insight then the average Witness. How come they can preach through Jehovah's voice but the rest of the 8 million Witness (who are literally no different) can't? Out of all my issues, blind obedience and devotion to 7 men over obedience and devotion to your friends, spouse and family including children ranks number 1!
  
  2: TRUTH (subject to change): Do Jehovah's Witnesses these days obediently adhere to the resurrection of the faithful men or old? Do they strictly believe that Jesus came invisibly in 1874 and started ruling in 1878? What about taking a stance against vaccines and organ transplants? Nope! Not any longer. All these core teachings that Witness once stood by have changed and many don't show up in their current publications. When I was studying I was told they "had the truth" but could not understand how almost every layer of truth can be demolished and replaced in a matter of one day. For example I had a HUGE issues with the Kingdom Ministry not being available to my disfellowshipped partner.I also did not like how it wasn't available to Bible Study's. It really bothered me that they were withholding this so called "truth" from everyone that wasn't them. It always bothered me when the Kingdom Ministry study came to be and I couldn't follow along. It made me feel like the pink elephant in the room and didn't withhold my opinions about this issue. I was told that this is how Jehovah runs things and that it's a loving provision and that I will come to accept it one day with more learning. Then BAM! One day the Kingdom Ministry became available to all! So long story short, how Jehovah runs things is completely subject to change. This also includes the blood issue and all the deaths surrounding it. You can now intake blood fractions to save your life but back before this change many died refusing any sort of fraction because "Jehovah" didn't run things in the way back then. Doctrine being subject to change shouldn't involve life and death for many based on when this change takes place and by whom this change takes place. Jehovah doesn't dictate these changes. It's those 7 men in New York that do! I couldn't subject my beliefs to be ever changing. What I was learning I wanted to dedicate too and I realized since anything I learned was subject to change, I couldn't do that.

  3: Protecting abusers and blaming the victims: My ex Jehovah's Witness partner told me a story about how their sister got married within the "truth." A nice respected Jehovah's Witnesses. On their honeymoon this Witness who she married ended up beating her so badly that she ended up hospitalized. This man who beat his wife was not disfellowshipped and was reproved for the reason that "beating a woman was not against God's moral law." WHAT???? This story was actually supposed to convince me that the organization had moral standards that exceeded the standards or "the world." This was my ex-partners sister and my partner was supporting the organizations decision to reprove this man and allowing him to be around other woman and is actually scripturaly free to re-marry within the congregation! This man that beat his own sister potentially almost to death! That was a huge moment for me when I knew something wasn't right. When I found out about the Jose Lopez case I was absolutely furious with the lack of sympathy the Watchtower showed towards this victim of abuse. Being molested when I was younger I was very angry with the disrespect they showed Jose Lopez. After many years of loyal service, even though he wasn't a Witness the Watchtower gave him no support...at all! They didn't show one ounce of sympathy for him being molested because at the time, their policy allowed it. Having seen what Losch stated about his loyalty to the Watchtower to the courts as his reasons for NOT showing up to defend the Watchtowers policy's and practices absolutely baffled me! "I do not answer to Watchtower and Watchtower does not have, and has never had any authority over me." This statement and his lack of working with the courts to defend God's organization...or the lack of defending this organization at all showed me that each and every member is expendable. The Watchtower will never be there for those abused by it's policy. It will never be there for those currently being abused by it's current policy. The individuals don't matter to the organization. The only thing that matters to the individuals loyal service to them!

  4: The love of money!: Watching JW broadcasting I can see that the organization has a love for money or valuable things. There is no limit to what this organization will ask for from it's members.Some of these valuable things include pension plans, retirement funds, jewelry, life savings or everything you own be directed to the organization in your written Will. The Governing Body recently cancelled everyone's loans. Sounds wonderful doesn't it? What the Witnesses do not know is that the same amount they were paying back in debt that had an end period when it's fully paid STILL has to be paid to the organization except with no expiry date. If a hall had only $500 left to pay back until their loan was fully paid and after that monthly payment would of been loan free that last bit of loan is now cancelled but that hall is now expected to pay that same amount of $500 a month with no fix end date. This is deception right there! This is making a scam aiming to grab more money from Witnesses seem like it's doing the complete opposite in public. The love for money has taken over the Watchtowers love for truth and honesty. They say the route of all evil, is the love of money. Now outright soliciting is being featured in JW Broadcasting and this soliciting is even being incorporated in the "Become Jehovah's Friend" series aimed at children. I was told as a Bible study that the organization has NEVER solicited for money and funds or "valuable things." Of course, like almost every teaching and doctrine to be proud of, it is subject to change!

  5: Disfellowshipping: Disfellowshipping was a big issue for me. Going to the hall with my disfellowshipped partner and to see the humiliation that had to be taken place in the name of love was down right disturbing. I discussed with an Elder once as he was asking where my disfellowshipped partner was during the socializing part at the beginning of the meetings. I told him my partner was in the car and this elder replied "Well that's where they should be." Nothing can come close to explaining how offended I was at this elders statement. To learn that my partner was shunned by their mother up until her death bed disturbed me. To see this shunning take place hurt me every single day. To treat people like this was unacceptable to me! Again I was told to accept this being apart of Jehovah's "high moral standards." How can a practice that has caused so much depression, anxiety, PTSD and even ending in suicide be loving? How is separating a mother from her child a loving thing? This practice also breaks the human right of being able to join or leave your religion without punishment! This practice breaks up families, destroys lives (literally) and denies you your basic human rights. This is not what love is. Love does not tare a mother away from her child. Someone who preforms an act of love towards you should not make you want to take your own life! There is no way removing your humans rights can be done in the name of love! All these things are done in the name of suppression. All disfellowshipping is meant for is to keep those still in, obedient and in line! It's a way to control YOU! If your spouse forbid you to speak to your mother or father, took away your human right to believe what you wanted and caused so much grief that you ended up taking your own life would your relationship in turn be classified as a loving relationship? You better think hard about that answer because that's exactly the relationship the Watchtower has with every single member within it's ranks! .
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  Does What We Say Here Or In Person Really Help JWs To Get Out Of The Religion?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if we are in the congregation, do you think our comments or questions actually reach elders or others in the congregation?

  do our comments on this board affect witnesses to the point of questioning their faith?

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  The Governor

  This forum really helped me out. I was a progressive bible study. I went to all the meetings, wore the clothes, answered the questions at the studies, went to the conventions and every single meeting. I studied vigorously. I aimed to be an unbaptized publisher. Not knowing anything about a large group of people apposing the organization I read this forum daily as I thought it was a Jehovah's Witness friendly forum. I did not know that the only website on the internet Jehovah's Witnesses were allowed to go to was JW.org. It took me about two days to realize that this forum did not support Jehovah's Witnesses but had great opinions, facts and points as to why they didn't.
  
  Many of the topics discussed here I found were not discussed in the Kingdom Hall. I even took some of this information to the elders wives or those who I was studying with and the first thing they would ask me was "where did you get it?" I found it odd that it mattered MORE where I got the information rather then the information being true or false. The Jehovah's Witnesses will always try and focus any apposing information you bring them on where you got it or from whom and not whether it is true or it isn't. They will avoid discussion on facts and truths about this information presented by only focusing on where you got it or who said it. Once you say the internet you will get a lecture on how apostates are bad and how they just spread lies about the organization while at the same time avoiding any discussion on the information you originally presented.
  
  This forum helped me a lot. I lurked for about a year....every single day before I even joined. So there are many people we can reach. Not just Jehovah's Witnesses but Bible Studies as well. Sites like this even may be the reason why the organization right now is really focusing on child baptisms as bringing new people in is getting incredibly hard with even one Google search being done. It's hard to convince a worldy person not look up or trust any information they Google but only the information on a one sided website.

  So keep the comments coming everyone! You really don't know who is reading!